Episode 19

Podcast: Daniel Stanton on Technology, Education, and Disruption

Cover of Supply Chain Management for Dummied 2nd EditionOtherwise known as “Mr. Supply Chain”, Daniel Stanton has a gift for explaining complex supply chain concepts in a way that has engaged millions of students. He has taught at several universities and is a leading instructor for the supply chain programs on LinkedIn Learning. The second edition of his book, Supply Chain Management for Dummies, is now available.

As an industry-recognized thought leader, Daniel was asked to comment about supply chain disruptions on CNBC, Tucker Carlson and other major media programs at the start of the COVID-19 pandemic.

On episode 19 of Supply Chain Next, Daniel pays us a return visit and shares his insights on the current directions in supply chain and distributed learning with host Richard Donaldson. You can listen to the podcast below, or watch the video version on YouTube.

Apple PodcastsGoogle PodcastsSpotifyYouTubeAmazon MusiciHeartRadioSoundCloudStitcherBlubrryPodbay

Highlights from the Conversation

How are you adapting to the changes that have been brought about by COVID-19?

  • It’s a change, and like any change that we go through in business or in life, there’s good and bad, and it’s about making the most of the opportunities and dealing with the challenges.
  • For years I’ve dreamed about reaching the point in my career where I lose my frequent flyer status, and it looks like I’ll finally achieve that goal in 2021!
  • A couple of professors at Cranfield University in the UK have been studying the impact of working from home. In 2019, we may have worked from home when we needed to really focus. But in 2020 it has reversed, and people go into the office to get away from the distractions.

Along with your 11 courses on LinkedIn Learning, you’ve got a new edition of your book coming out. Can you tell me about that, and what has changed in the three years since the first edition came out?

  • I published the first edition around Thanksgiving 2017, and I’m delighted to say that it’s done really well. And it’s not just because I personally like to see a lot of book sales—I think it fills a really important gap.
  • Here’s why. In supply chain, we talk past each other all the time (we use the same words to mean different things). There’s so much material to understand, and most people don’t have the opportunity to have someone break it down and explain it to them in simple terms. It’s complex and there’s an alphabet soup of acronyms to learn, so it can really help to have that overview no matter where you work in the supply chain. That was my goal with the book, cut through the complexity, the marketing BS, and the dense academic language, and frame it in terms anyone could relate to in their own businesses.
  • Based on what people are saying to me, it looks like there are a few audiences for the book:
    • College students who want to know how all the different pieces fit together. It’s like the Cliff’s Notes series we had in the old days.
    • Early-career supply chain professionals or folks who are transitioning in their careers. They have, or are looking for, a supply chain job and they need a better understanding of the tools, the rules and the jargon. They want to be able to go into that job interview and have a meaningful conversation. Or if they have a job, they want to be able to understand how their role fits into the big picture.
      • One group of people in career transition that are close to my heart are military veterans, because I’m an old Navy guy myself. In the military people might get a lot of highly relevant experience, but the terms are very different, so the book helps them overcome that language barrier.
    • Managers and leaders who are buying the book for their teams. For example, I’ve had a couple of IT managers buy multiple copies of the book because their customers are supply chain people. I also know of a couple of companies who leave a copy of the book waiting on the desks of new hires as part of their onboarding package. There are also some groups who have a kind of book club with their co-workers for professional learning, and they do a chapter a week.
  • It was time for a new edition because in the past three years supply chain management has changed.
    • There’s been a lot of mergers and acquisitions (M&A) and rebranding in supply chain solutions, so I’ve updated all those software program names.
    • Three years ago, supply chain control towers weren’t a software category, but now they are.
    • In the first edition I also didn’t write about manufacturing execution systems or manufacturing operations management systems, but I cover them in the second edition.
    • Supply chain risk management is now a much more important subject for us to talk about in 2020. I talk about what it is, how to implement it, and a few of the tools that are out there that can help.
    • The asset management space that Requis is in was not something I talked about in the first edition. I’ve included some discussion about managing asset lifecycles and how that ties back to financial management for the supply chain, so you’re making sure you understand what’s happening on the balance sheet and income statements.

Gartner came out with a new magic quadrant two years ago called “multi-enterprise supply chain business networks”, or what we call “supply chain platforms”. As there are a lot more platforms and a lot more investment in supply chain right now, how do you see the increased visibility of supply chain playing out in new technology?

  • 2020 is really the year for supply chain. For so long we’ve been like the Rodney Dangerfield of the business world, as in, “we can’t get no respect”, and in terms of no one even knowing what supply chain is. And then, suddenly, people can’t find toilet paper, and they hear the phrase “supply chain” so they want to know what’s going on. And since my handle is “Mr. Supply Chain”, everyone from CNBC to Tucker Carlson and even Dr. Oz wanted me to do spots.
  • I agree that 2020 has made supply chain technology a hot area for investment. I hear that from lots of places that venture capital, angel investment and private equity are looking for opportunities to put money in supply chain technology.
  • That’s awesome, and even though some of that is going to be risk capital and even bad debts, that’s going to throw gasoline onto what will ultimately become the winners that accelerate the change.
  • In terms of the digital transformation that we’ve been talking about for a long time, 2020 is really an inflection point, and we’re moving a whole lot faster now. It’s benefitting from both economies of scale and a kind of critical mass effect. What I mean by that is that it’s tough to get the first few adopters, but once you do then everyone else has to do it too in order to stay competitive. I think there’s a strong pull towards what I’ll call supply chain process automation. Because at the end of the day all these tools are designed to automate some combination of processes that are part of the supply chain.
  • Big trends: there was a time when it seemed like everyone was working towards the master supply chain software solution. The assumption was that it was going to be either SAP or Oracle, or both. What’s been interesting in the last few years is that this thinking has kind of busted apart, and it’s now an environment where best of breed solutions have an opportunity to quickly spin up. As long as you’ve got APIs that allow these solutions to communicate you can put together the blend that works best for your business. I think that’s really healthy for innovation.
  • Part of that shift has come out of the era of the cloud. There was a time when it would have been very difficult to convince senior leaders that they could have their whole organization up on the Internet. Nowadays, having all that on-premise infrastructure is just an albatross.
  • So those three pieces are working together: ready access to capital, the backlash against monopolistic players, and the ease of doing things on the cloud. They are what’s driving rapid innovation and are creating a super competitive environment for software solutions.

I’ve always felt that supply chain has never really had its own system, and ERPs were co-opted for that purpose because there simply wasn’t anything else. Really, this is the dawn of the era supply chain technology solutions that have never existed before.

  • Well, that is a pretty radical view, which is what I expect from my friend Richard!
  • I’m thinking of all my friends out there in the software world, and how they’d respond to having someone say that the solutions that exist were sort of forced on customers and never really met the need!

I think there have been little pieces that worked, but that no one has thought of the supply chain in totality and provided a framework in which to think of your supply chain holistically.

  • But it’s such a huge thing to automate the whole supply chain.
  • The reality is that you can start by automating a few pieces and get huge gains in efficiency in each one. Then you can understand the tradeoffs and the complexity of not just getting those automated pieces to talk to each other, but the fact that there are some really hard decisions to make about what you should do.
  • That’s the role the humans have played, making those decisions. We’re trying to get to the place where we can delegate that decision-making authority to AI. But at the end of the day, you’re teaching them to make decisions based on a training dataset, and it works only if the environment that they’re put into resembles the environment they’ve been trained on.
    • There’s an example of this that happened with automated forecasting engines (demand planning engines that are built around AI). The thinking was, “why would you have a person trying to look for seasonality and correlations between product demand?”.
    • They just dumped it all into the AI engine and let it figure out what the patterns are. And consistently it wasn’t perfect, but it was more accurate than the people.
    • That was the big thing in 2019, to turn these trained forecasting engines loose and let them predict stock levels and plan what we should be doing with manufacturing and ordering.
    • But the assumption was that the statistics of the past are an accurate representation of the probabilities of the future. In 2020 that’s not a valid assumption, and if you’re waiting for the AI to figure out that something has changed, you’re always going to be behind the ball.
    • If you still have a human sitting at the dials, sort of a co-driver along with the AI, the human can go, “whoa, there’s a global pandemic happening, part of the world is being shut down, those ships aren’t able to move, and demand over there is changing….” I think that’s the only way to rewire it fast enough to get ahead of a disruptive environment.
  • I think the big lesson of 2020 is that technology can do amazing things, but we need to make sure it’s not just a black box running the show. We need to understand what it’s doing and how it’s doing it, and we’re using our creativity and judgement when things are changing to give the AI better information so it can do its job more effectively.

So, it seems like part of the changing role of supply chain practitioners is to know how to use technology effectively. How do you incorporate that into things like your LinkedIn Learning courses?

  • I’ve always had a personal mantra that we need to think strategically about technology, and think globally about our business, no matter what we’re doing.
  • So, applying that to my situation, I’m in the business of supply chain management and I’m a supply chain educator, so in that context what does thinking strategically about technology mean?
    • When I started off as a trainer and educator, I would schedule my classes and I would go and meet the students face to face. This was the best option 20 years ago. But it was inconvenient, expensive, and inefficient because people learn at different speeds. There are some who are bored stiff working at a 1.0 speed and others who need to be able to slow it down for any number of reasons, like the material is not in their native language, or if they just need more time to process the information.
    • If you can enable technology and provide it on demand, then you can reach a bigger audience and provide the material for a much lower cost. Then your students can adapt the material to their needs. So, I think LinkedIn Learning is the business leader even though it’s still almost unheard of—it has a library of about 15,000 business courses, and it’s all good stuff, and you get unlimited access to all of it for something like $35 per month.
    • I definitely agree that the pandemic has accelerated the use of online technology.
  • I used to work at Caterpillar in Peoria, Illinois, which is where Bradley University is located, and several years ago there was a group of forward-thinking professors on the faculty who saw the need to start a supply chain program. As I was working at Caterpillar, I was asked to help them structure the program, and then I was invited to teach the introductory course. I enjoyed that, but I didn’t like any of the textbooks because they were either too narrow in scope. That, by the way, is why I put together my own materials which became the origin of the first edition of the book. But those courses were all delivered face to face in the classroom.
  • Fast-forward to 2020, and Bradley has asked me to come back and teach again, but this time over Zoom. I had to completely rethink how I teach that, because, for example, I can’t bring my students together to play the beer game, and you can’t sit in a lecture hall and have a conversation. But what I do have is a textbook that costs $20 on Amazon that covers exactly what they need, and for the lectures I assigned them one video a week from LinkedIn Learning, both mine and from other great lecturers like Stephen Brown. So, when we get together on Zoom we use the time to talk about what they’ve learned and how that applies to current events, and I provide demonstrations using other tools. It’s been great, because when we come to the virtual classroom, we’re having these thoughtful discussions about incredibly relevant stuff: we’re talking about COVID vaccines, and stores that are going bankrupt or seeing greater activity, and automation. I absolutely see that technological transformation.

So, you would say that education, like supply chain, is going to be rewritten over the next five to six years.

  • I’d like to start my answer to that by defining supply chain, which is a complex system made up of people, processes and technologies that is engineered and managed to deliver something of value to the customer.
  • Building on that, education is a product. It is made of people, processes and technology and needs to be engineered and managed. So yes, you’re absolutely right, you can think of education as a supply chain.
  • The question becomes “how do you value the output”. I think there is tremendous value that can be delivered tied to the experience of being on the campus and being surrounded by smart people who challenge your thinking and interact with you. You just don’t get that same experience watching a video and taking an online course.
  • This is the struggle that universities now face: how do we separate the content or knowledge that’s being imparted from the overall experience. That knowledge is something you can get almost for free online, but the experience is located in a particular place at a particular time.
  • In some ways this isn’t really a new problem. You could go to learn something at different schools even if they all use the same textbook. So their problem becomes how to they charge different prices—and they’ve all been doing that all along with the experience (for example, by providing fancy gyms, nice campuses, lots of additional programs).
  • But I do agree that this problem is coming into sharper focus now because the ability to access that knowledge in a high-quality way with a better experience is becoming more accessible and affordable.
  • I think there will continue to be a need for universities to play lots of important roles, for example as places to create knowledge and as places to immerse people in an environment where questioning and learning is your business. Because you don’t get that from your day-to-day.
  • But if the business is just teaching classes and issuing credentials, then the competition is going to remain pretty fierce, and places that focus on that are likely to struggle.
  • I did my masters at MIT over a decade ago, and that was an amazing experience. It’s very helpful to immerse yourself in an environment in which you’re never the smartest person in the room, because that’s how you learn and grow.
  • In the last five years, MIT’s Center for Transportation and Logistics has launched an online program called the MITx MicroMasters in Supply Chain Management. It’s the same stuff I learned in Boston, and of course they’ve updated it because MIT’s great at being in front of what’s happening, and supply chain management has changed.
    • But anyone anywhere in the world can take that program for free. If you want the certificate to prove that you took it, then you have to pay about $1,200 for the courses and the final exam. Either way you can learn from the top people.
  • This easier delivery will change things for careers in supply chain. If you want a job as a supply chain professional (say a mid-level analyst or entry level supply chain manager) it will become an expectation that you’ve done the MITx MicroMasters. I mean, why not? This will become transformative for our profession.
  • My dream is that the LinkedIn courses will become a prerequisite for the MITx MicroMasters. And if you combine that with another bachelor’s degree from another university then you’ve got a pretty strong education that will give you the ability to perform well and to stay abreast of the changes.

There are some exciting implications here that if people around the world are learning similar content, they would start to develop a common frame of reference to talk about supply chain, with similar KPIs, etc.

  • Yes, that’s really powerful.
  • So many really good ideas in supply chain fall apart because:
    • We use the same words to mean different things.
    • We don’t speak up if we don’t understand what someone is saying because we don’t want to look ignorant.
    • We don’t understand how the thing we want to do involves a tradeoff, meaning that the other person who’s going to take the hit may want to push back even if there’s a net benefit to what we want to do.
  • We’ve got to get to the place where everyone is speaking the same language and understands all the concepts and can recognize those tradeoffs and navigate that together to come up with that optimal solution.

We’re almost out of time but I have so many more questions – we haven’t touched on circularity or sustainability or new technologies like blockchain or cryptocurrencies.

  • I know, how did we manage to get through an hour without saying the word “blockchain”?

Aside from blockchain, I’m also looking at cryptocurrencies in general and the explosion they’re having right now. I would argue that the whole concept of currency is being disrupted even though no one’s really talking about it. COVID has increased the demand for contactless payment, and now that PayPal has picked up BitCoin cryptocurrencies are off to the races.

  • I think BitCoin is close to a record high and it’s not even making news, and that’s what scares me. The last time it crested in 2018 it was all over the news. Now that it’s happening again and nobody’s paying attention maybe that means it’s now a real thing, and not just media hype.

In closing, how do you see 2021 playing out in general and for you personally?

  • I love conferences and I love getting together and meeting with other professionals. That CSCMP Edge conference in LA in 2019 was so much fun for us. That experience of just hanging out in the hallway and getting into these amazing conversations is just something we normally don’t have time for, but it’s how you build relationships. I really miss that in 2020. I don’t blame anyone for having to go virtual, it’s the right thing to do, but I would love for those in-person experiences to come back.
  • In 2021, on one hand I’m very optimistic because we’re making progress with vaccines and antibody treatments and other therapeutics. It’s no surprise that the more time we have, the more we learn about this and execute strategies to deal with it, and the less of an issue it’s going to become.
  • The problem was that it surprised us, and we weren’t ready and it knocked us back on our heels a bit. But it looks like 2021 is going to be a better year.
  • Given everything that we know right now, I’m working under the assumption that January 2022 is the earliest that I’m going to be doing business travel. If things end up being better than I expect in 2021, I’d like to take advantage of it for some family travel and vacation.
  • But as much as I love travelling to meet with people, I also love that I’ve been able to stay home and work, and we’ve lost the expectation that we must travel in order to work. If someone wants me for a day, I no longer have to lose a day on either side of that to spend a day with them.

Listen to the full conversation on Soundcloud >

Listen to our first podcast with Daniel from September 2019 >

More about Daniel Stanton

Daniel got into supply chain while working in a Navy F/A-18 squadron, and it shaped his perspective as his career moved into engineering and IT. He has worked in supply chain for Caterpillar, APICS (now ASCM), MHI, and other firms, and taught at several universities. He holds the PMP, CSCP, SCPro certifications. You can learn more about Daniel on his website.

Connect with Daniel on LinkedIn >

Learning Resources

Subscription Form (5)


Subscribe for Updates

More Episodes

You can listen to our audio tracks and read highlights for each episode below.
We’ve also started publishing video episodes on our YouTube channel.

Dr Marcell Vollmer

058 – Dr Marcell Vollmer – Tech in Supply Chain, and the Sustainability Shift

Supply Chain Next · 058 – Dr Marcell Vollmer – Tech in Supply Chain, and the Sustainability Shift Meet Dr. Marcell Vollmer Dr. Marcell Vollmer, a renowned expert in the fields of digitalization, innovation, and sustainability. Marcell is a sought-after speaker and author that has dedicated his career to helping companies and individuals navigate the rapidly…

Learn More
Juli Lassow founder of JHL Solutions,

059 – Juli Lassow – Revolutionizing Retail, Sustainable Strategies, & the Future of Partnerships

Supply Chain Next · 059 – Juli Lassow – Revolutionizing Retail, Sustainable Strategies, & the Future of Partnerships Juli Lassow ,founder of JHL Solutions Meet Juli Lassow Juli Lassow, an accomplished retail professional, speaker, writer, and sustainability advocate, is the founder of JHL Solutions, a consultancy focused on creating outstanding private-label partnerships. With a deep…

Learn More
Martijn Lopes Cardozo, CEO at Circle Economy.png

060 – Martijn Lopes Cardozo – Circular Supply Chain

 Supply Chain Next · 060 – Martijn Lopes Cardozo – Circular Supply Chain Martijn Lopes Cardozo, CEO at Circle Economy Meet Martijn Lopes Cardozo Martijn, a seasoned entrepreneur, has an impressive track record of establishing prosperous ventures within the realms of software, mobile, and digital media in California. Upon returning to the Netherlands, he…

Learn More